24 ( +1 | -1 ) men>women?im rooting for the human right as in everyone is equal and i think everyone would but theres something i dont get.how come the female GM title doesnt seem worth versus the men GM title?so far only judit polgar made the men gm title(?).
28 ( +1 | -1 ) the 3 first women with normal GMs where:Susan Polgar Pia Cramling Judith Polgar
That was in the early 90s, (or late 80s)
The fact of lowering the WGM title is easy to understand, because as there are so fewer women playing, if you created a WGM title with the same requisites than the GM title, WGM would have no sense at all.
71 ( +1 | -1 ) I agree that changing standards is silly. On the other hand, no one should think that men are innately better at chess. Anyone, and I mean anyone (psychologist, neuroscientist, whoever), who says they have data that shows that men or women are better at chess seriously misunderstands the limit on the possibility of knowing such a thing, i.e. find men and women who haven't been brought up in a culture where men are more encouraged to play chess. What's more, we do not yet understand the human brain thoroughly enough to have any hypothesis about why one sex or the other would play chess better (saying, "it must have something to do with their brains" is begging the question).
74 ( +1 | -1 ) Seems to make no senseto differentiate between M and F in an intellectual game; It makes no more sense than say dividing groups by height, religeon or sexual orientation.
Why would anyone be proud to exclaim: "Yeah, I know I'm #1534 in the FIDE world rankings, but Mom, great news! I'm the #1 ranked lesbian in the heavyweight division of over 6' tall Lutherans!"
Sure, I understand there are dramatically less women in the game than men, but there ARE women in it none the less; Does loosening the standard for greatness and highlighting the fact that they're women promote the sport as one that females should take interest in, or does it really say 'we know you can't compete with the men, so we're going to give you a break'.
This is chess, not weightlifting. What's the point?
61 ( +1 | -1 ) Ifthere is an intellectual difference between men and women that explains why strong male players are more abundant than strong female players I would guess that it would be that women have more common sense about where to spend their time.
I think a friend of mine, FIDE rated about 2300, put it best when he declared that if either of us had put the time and energy we had put into chess into any other activity we would be millionares by now. It is difficult to come up with a rational excuse for spending so much time on a hobby!
177 ( +1 | -1 ) "Does loosening the standard for greatness and highlighting the fact that they're women promote the sport as one that females should take interest in, or does it really say 'we know you can't compete with the men, so we're going to give you a break'"
I think ultimately women titles promote chess more than they hurt it. People like titles; they identify with them and the titles help establish concrete goals. There has been a large increase in the number of female chess players compared to several decades ago (heck, I can't even name any female chess players off the top of my head before 1970 or so). Whether this trend is due to the presence of women's titles or not is open to debate of course; finally permitting women to play in tournaments other than all-women's tournaments undoubtedly contributed as well, for instance.
Still, there is a prevalent perception that chess is a man's game (also that chess is a game for geeks, nerds, antisocial, and just plain weird people, but that's a different matter) and the only real way to chance this perception is to simply change the landscape of chess by incorporating a larger body of female players. To do this, you have to offer incentives that are highly visible to the general community such as chess titles. With that, you get a larger number of high-caliber, high-profile, high-visibility female players (you're more likely to find a chess genius in a group of 10,000 than a group of 1000) which in turn motivates more females to play chess through positive reinforcement and role-models.
Women's titles may just be a PR gimmick in the end, but they're probably useful in that capacity.
48 ( +1 | -1 ) male VS femaleThe male culture is very different than the female culture. This means you don't have a bunch of women sitting around, pushing pieces of wood around 64 squares in smoke-filled rooms. Most think it's a waste of manpower, when we could be out cutting the grass, nailing in a picture, or painting the shed. But when a woman WANTS to excell in chess (or anything else) her intellect is just as capable as a man's. At least that's my story, and I'm sticking to it.
10 ( +1 | -1 ) brucehumFirst full-GM titled woman were Maya Chiburdanidze and Nona Gaprindashvili.
43 ( +1 | -1 ) Well, seems like we're mostly in agreement here. The best thing to do is get women you know interested in the game. It might sound crazy, but definately think of your girlfriend or wife and see if they'll play a game or two with you. I got my own girlfriend into playing chess, and she's learned very quickly, though you have to be careful to balance out suggestions on how to make better moves vs. just letting her have fun with it.
6 ( +1 | -1 ) BoggYou're scaring me with crazy talk like that.
72 ( +1 | -1 ) to boggplaying chess needs no excuse!!!! does going fishing need an excuse? or archery or playing golf or playing tennis or hiking or billiards or going shopping OR doing anything thats a hobby and enjoyment?? but i like your comment about women having more common sense where to spend thier time!! being female I will say this -its hard to imagine a stronger female player than Judit Polgar, who in my opinion can not and will not ever win the world title. there are just too many male super grandmasters !! but my hope is that only the real true best player always win the world title be it male or female.--yours BBG
47 ( +1 | -1 ) M/FObviously men are better players than women because men have larger brains. The one thing that women do better than men is bearing children - ask any one of my four wives and they'll tell you that. Women really should get their act together because even in the traditional areas, such as cooking, men seem to be doing a better job now. I've sent two of my wives on cookery courses just to sharpen them up.
The Great Blatman(always knows his onions)
146 ( +1 | -1 ) You're wrong blatmanHaving a larger brain means nothing. It has been proven by scientists numerious times, and I won't go into the details of it i'll just give you a simple example. If what you say is true blatman, why aren't sperm whales armed with proton cannons, and dissentegrating rays. In fact why are they just big fat prey for us to kill. They have the largest brains on the planet but all they do is swim around and eat squid? Explain that? The truth is women having smaller brain are actually smarter than men. I am not trying to discriminate or anything, but on average women get better grades in school than men do. That difference is becoming larger and larger every day. It is partly that men are focusing less on education, but women are more intelligent than men(on average) and that will make a difference in the future. The polgar sisters much respect as I have for them aren't really talanted in chess like some people were. They do have talent but no more talent than I or many other people. Their high rating have been produced by their father's training. Every day solving puzzles playing games, and all the other things he had them do honed their skills to what they are now. They are an example of excellence, they prove that every mentally capable man and woman who puts enough work into something can achieve at least a master title.
78 ( +1 | -1 ) HA!Kremator please.....you embarrass yourself; Sperm whales with proton cannons.....REALLY! Where do you come up with this stuff? It's quite obvious that Sperm whales are intellectually superior to all life forms - humans included. The difference is not that they're not as smart as us, the difference is in the opposible thumb.
All the brains in the world won't help you if you don't have the tools to implement your knowledge! I mean have you tried to build a proton cannon using flippers instead of arms?? and UNDERWATER TO BOOT??!?
I didn't think so. :))
Let's leave these seagoing giants alone. They already lead a tortured existence knowing that could rule the world but for the absence of that darn thumb.....kinda like Stephen Hawking.......
17 ( +1 | -1 ) Wow,thought it would go in this direction--- lets keep it down to a low roar, guys. Women and Men are different beings, and comparing them accurately just isn't possible.
37 ( +1 | -1 ) to anyWell at least women can out talk a man any day of the week. so if conversation - conveying information counts for anything -then we are the best. now as for war- killing people - men certainly are tops at that . although its hardly an achievement worthy of praise . I state that women can be as good at chess as men , but thier will most likely always be too many male GM'S FOR THE TOP WOMAN TO OVERCOME . YOURS - BBG
184 ( +1 | -1 ) Culture!Yes, it is right that men have a relative larger brain than women (ca. 20%) but noone really knows why. But if I remember right there is a slightly higher percentage of highly inteligent males than females. But then women are "blessed" with 13% more fat and a lower pain tolerance. That is just how things are we are build for slightly different adaptions. We are not as dimrphic as some creatures, though. Fx some spicies of deepsea Anglerfishes (Lophiiformes) the adult male is just seen as a little wart near the females anus. Literally grown into just blood vesals and testicles, feed by the female in the same way as an unborn child. Try to play chess like that! Besides it really does not matter for him as the female is probably the ugliest fish I have ever seen and they live in total darkness.
Talking about the sea, Spermwales does have the largest brain but not compared to size that is humans.
All this said (I will stop now before I get carried away and start to make you skip to another subject) I think culture are the answer to your question. Boys are tought to be more competitive than girls and there is more prestige in being the most inteligent and best for men than for women. It lays all the chicks at your feet (just look at the sumowrestlers wifes). Weathers men tend to dislike thier wife to be smarter than them and earn more.
Also boys have a higher tendancy to get involved in activities that have low sex appeal and consumes alot of time like stamp collecting, trainspotting, birding, chess and so forth. I know that I might be a bit off with some of them but you get the picture I hope.
66 ( +1 | -1 ) First 3 to earn the GM title by playing...where Susan Polgar, Pia Cramling and Judith Polgar.
By playing I mean the normal way: 3 GM norms, etc...
Maya Chiburdanidze and Nona Gaprindashvili, wonderful players both of them, had their titles 'given' to them by FIDE as recognition. If FIDE hadn't done that, they would surely have earned them the standard way by themselves in a few years more!
Or so is what I deduce from Chesscafe column by Susan Polgar.
One way to gain a GM title is by winning the world championship, so maybe winning the female world championship gave you the GM title?
Anyway, the post was to say that there are more than 1 women with GM title...
4 ( +1 | -1 ) it's all down hill from here...
33 ( +1 | -1 ) bbgnot to get too far off topic, but
"so if conversation - conveying information counts for anything -then we are the best"
i have to say that when it comes to actually converying information, i find your posts quite a lot harder to understand than most of the male posters here. On top of that, talking and conveying information effectively are two different things.
17 ( +1 | -1 ) ????ehh... im confuse, i mean REALLY REALLY confuse... stop argueing the 2003 iq test show that men are SMARTER dan women by 2% so... hehe i think thats gud enough
92 ( +1 | -1 ) to silverwolfscif you find them harder to understand maybe thats your fault . others seem to understand them very well, at least well enough to answer and even comment thier disagreement about them. Also maybe understanding the opposite sex is your biggest problem. Or just maybe Im speaking of things you do not understand. You gave me insufficent info to explain YOUR problem understanding me!! you gave no facts -you just expressed your problem of not understanding . So I can not help you without more info from you . However i do give names others do not understand ,such as references to Caissa and other chess related names . please give me a long list of your problems - I just may be able to help you with your reading problem!! -BBG --its really no problem for me to do this ,why I even been known to help my little nieces and nephews learn thier ABC'S
82 ( +1 | -1 ) bluebabygirlI am surprised that you of all people are giving women no chance of equalling men at the highest level of Chess. Take heart my friend as there is a young 13 year old girl destined to snatch the torch presently carried so well by from Judit Polgar, she is called Kateryna Lahno and already, at the age of just 13 she is the 28th best woman chess player in the world. Her ELO rating is presently 2439 and her rating is zooming skywards.
Kateryna is no ordinary girl, she scorns womens events and plays only against the men. She recently competed in the European Mens Championship and finished some sixty places higher than her expected place (according to ELO ratings)
With her and also Humpy Koneru making great progress womens chess is in safe hands for the foreseeable future.
118 ( +1 | -1 ) bbgthe main problem is the way you use nearly no punctuation, cant separate one sentence from another, and the fact that you ramble aimlessly in the middle of what youre talking about.
Maybe you could try using the return key every once in a while, format things up a bit, make them easier to read.
Its not that im having a problem comprehending what you are saying, its that i am having a problem trying to read through them and separate one thought/concept from the next.
As far as my understanding of the opposite sex, i can tell you that there are many females on this site that post in a comprehensive manner, and are easily understandable. There are also many males on this site that write things just like you do.
As you stated before, you are very good at talking, but conveying information is a different thing, which i find you to be quite bad at.
Need any more facts?
P.S. Before you go trying to insult my ability to read, perhaps you should look at your own ability to write a decent english sentence, and then try to learn how to break them up into paragraphs.
If english is not your native language, then I understand, and I appologise.
16 ( +1 | -1 ) Excuse me.This discussion does not seem to have anything to do with the following: Chess, GameKnot, Tournaments, or Teams. I can't see any good coming out of this discussion, can you?
18 ( +1 | -1 ) da thing iswhile it's true that men have larger brains the two hemispheres of a woman's brain are connected better than a man's therfore making them (to some extent) smarter
7 ( +1 | -1 ) KEWL...Katheryna could teach me some of her kick butt moves eh? lol =)
76 ( +1 | -1 ) to calmrolfe and my editor silverwolfwsccThanks for the info.Yes you are right .I should have more faith in the younger female players .So i will try to think positive on that in the future .To silverwolfwsc-Yes you are correct about my careless grammer and my sloppy pensmanship.However I do get my point across. You are the only one to have a problem with it so far. Please just ignore me . And if you wish I shall do the same with you. I often read comments that I do not agree with or just do not understand . But I do not try to correct those people or ask them to explain. I just ignore them. Maybe in the future we can agree to just ignore each other. Of course feel free to correct my grammer and my punctuation in this comment ,if it will make you happy. - yours bluebabygirl--p.s. Did I ramble aimlessly too much here??
60 ( +1 | -1 ) It would be so niceif everyone could do that, Bluegirl. I find most of the trouble in the forums on gameknot came from the fact that everyone takes everything personally, and they find it torturously difficult to ignore something even mildly offensive. Imagine, chess players being such a bunch of stuffed shirts!
I don't know about men being smarter than women. All I know is that I am smarter than women. heh heh. I was KIDDING. Jeez. Go ahead, report this post, take offense. Or instead of taking offense, take a joke.
Take 2, I've got plenty!
43 ( +1 | -1 ) Bluebabygirl:Your poetry and stories are very imaginative and creative, but silverwolf is correct in his assertion that your grammar, sentence structure, and ability to write in a succinct manner are sub-standard.
You might want to think before you post, next time, to make sure that you're accurately communicating your point--especially when your point is that members of your gender are skilled in the art of communication.
62 ( +1 | -1 ) RUBBISHNice to see you're all awake now in America.
I disagree with everything written by everybody except the bit about what's her fce and here inabiloty to comunicate in a literal way.
Women are more violent than men but don't get reported for it because they're not so good at violence, ie it's not worth it.
kremator - for heaven's sake, talking about school grades: men and women don't go to school, boys and girls go to school.
sumsar - chess has low sex appeal, really? Well, I think chess is very sexy and I'm seeing my doctor about that now.
So, all agree with me, you know it makes sense,
The Great Blatman(could cause a fight in an empty house)
42 ( +1 | -1 ) :)Blatman could be 100% correct as he almost always is :)
Like Bogg said, I think men are more easily adicted to pure gaming and competition. Check out casino adicts, 99% males. Check out the male/female proportion of this site players (estimated).
We men are simply more childish through out our lifes, and get motivated with games.
Thanks to the few brave females who are undoubtly a breath of fresh air in our games.
7 ( +1 | -1 ) STREWTH e-r......show a bit more fight,
The Great Blatman(resistance is futile)
2 ( +1 | -1 ) may the games of war begin......
75 ( +1 | -1 ) BBGId like to point out that ive simply ignored your posts up to this point, but it seemed too ironic that you, of all people, would be trying to assert that females are more skilled in communication skills than men.
You then insulted my ability to read, which has nothing to do with it at all. I can read your posts just fine, but they almost take extra effort to try to sort out all of the rambling, and to be honest, I dont usually find that it was worth it.
Furthermore, the purpose of my original post was not to make fun of you, or to attack you, but simply to point out that it was quite ironic that you, of all people, would make the point that females communicate better than males. Sorry if ive offended you, this was not my intent.
120 ( +1 | -1 ) blatmanWell I can't talk about their performance in college or higher levels of education because the women's intellectual superiority is only now starting to show. Maybe in a few year I can talk about how they perform in higher levels of education but for now it's only limited to school. The ammount of women that earn college degrees each year is rising very quickly though. Maybe if men didn't have women do the dishes and watch the babies for so long women would have more time to excell at games. Come to think of it though what does intelligence have to do with the game of chess? What is intelligence anyway? If a person read 100 encyclopedias and knows more than your college professor would that make him or her smart? Look at Max Euwe he had a high degree in math made contributions to the field, and he was one of the weakest world champions ever. Being smart probably has very little to do with chess. Chess is a game that requires its own kind of talent that doesn't involve your normal intelligence. To be fantastical at chess you need to be genius, not smart but genius. Or you can be smart and do it the hard way.
21 ( +1 | -1 ) Hmmmm..."To be fantastical at chess you need to be genius, not smart but genius."
Not smart, but a genius, eh? I suppose you don't have to be a good fighter to be the heavy weight champion of the world, you just have to be good at knocking people out...
6 ( +1 | -1 ) PreciselyMike Tyson is a living example of your statement.
10 ( +1 | -1 ) kremator:Are you saying that Mike Tyson isn't a good fighter? I suppose you could take him, then, eh?
7 ( +1 | -1 ) Men V WomenBet I could beat most of the men on this site at chess, :-) Laura x
14 ( +1 | -1 ) pawngoddess:I accept that challenge! :) Unfortunately, I am new, so I can't challenge you to a game. I will accept a challenge from you, though. What is your OTB rating?
48 ( +1 | -1 ) SquijumOk I will send a challenge later, I am approx 2150 ELO otb. As someone else in this thread mentioned incorrectly that men are better at fighting than women I will solve that one too. I issue a fight challenge to all the men on the site. I weigh 60k so if we take into account the biological fact that men have 70% greater upper body strength than women of the same weight I will fight any male weighing 40k or less. "....come on boys if you can handle it.."
23 ( +1 | -1 ) pawngoddessWell done. You brought a smile to my face(not a pretty sight).
That is the first time I have been aware of someone challenging anyone else on GK to a fight!