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| From | Message | Posted by andy94
nsa-hitachi.com
11/16/2008
08:02:21
Play online chess |  Subject: A chess saying...
Message:
"White plays to win, black plays to draw."
I don't remember who said it, but it's an interesting thing to talk about.
What do you think?
| Posted by ionadowman
nsa-hitachi.com
11/16/2008
12:36:32
Play online chess | Is it indeed attributable to one person?...
Message:
I seems to have been the approach taken by many chess masters, but certainly not all. Judging by the recent World Championship match, Vishy Anand had no idea of taking such a line. Bobby Fischer would have thought such an approach pusillanimous.
I much prefer the attitude of one Efim Bogoljubov, who flourished in the '20s and '30s: "When I have White, I win because I have the White pieces; when I have Black, I win because I am Bogojubov."
Cheers,
Ion
| Posted by ccmcacollister
nsa-hitachi.com
11/16/2008
14:02:17
Play online chess | I have always liked Bogo's~! Very masterful :))
Message:
Corollaries:
Alekhine: "When I am WT I win because I am Alekhine, with black I win because you Are Bogojubov".
Mine: "When I am White I win because You are not Bogojubov, with black I win because Bogojubov is deceased and only had an hour to get to the board. "
{ "Wait a minute, I won? What happened??" }
}8-)
About drawing with black, winning with WT. Obviously it Wins any single match. Besides that it is often used in RR or double RR play particularly amongst near equals and in long events. In Swiss play, especially short ones, it is not so commonly sought.
There it might be more like: Crush the lower rated because you are higher rated; Win with WT among your peers; and Let's see about winning with black among peers and betters since I hope to know my chosen defense better, but if not perhaps I will grace them (aka "bail out" :) with a draw . . .
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A Chess Player’s Attacks Pay Off, Even When They Shouldn’t — Computer chess programs are so popular, and so good, that almost anybody can use one to figure out where a chess player went wrong — when the game is over. But at the chess board, competitors can rely only on their brains and wits (unless they are cheating) and are bound to make mistakes, especially when they are under pressure. One reason why Veselin Topalov of Bulgaria is so good is that he forces opponents to make mistakes. Ranked No. 2 in the world, he is an aggressive chess player who is always trying to attack. There are problems with this approach, when being aggressive is not justified. But the constant pressure that he places on his opponents often ...
Posted by kansaspatzer
nsa-hitachi.com
11/16/2008
14:04:45
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I think that such an approach is more applicable at a higher level than most of us are at. Certainly, when you look at the world championship matches such as the one just played between Kramnik and Anand, the notion of who was White and who was Black was critical to match strategy (and it was a very big deal when Anand won as Black.) At my level - I'm around 1600 both on here and OTB, I'm going to play for a win any time I'm playing somebody unless they're much higher rated than I am, in which case I may head for drawish lines, knowing that heading for a technical endgame will likely play into the hands of someone with more endgame experience than myself.
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Vishy Anand saves his strength before world match with Veselin Topalov — Vishy Anand, who defends his world title against Veselin Topalov at Sofia in April, kept his powder dry in his warm-up chess event at Corus Wijk where the Indian, 40, played at full force in only a few games. In contrast Topalov, 34, has played hard in almost every game this week at the Linares elite chess tournament in Andalusia, where he won first prize with 6.5/10, half a point ahead of Russia's Alex Grischuk. The Bulgarian squeezed points from tiny advantages and by round six had regained the world No1 spot on the live chess ratings from Magnus Carlsen. These daily updated rankings have a huge following and their prestige is now not far short of ...
Posted by cascadejames
nsa-hitachi.com
11/16/2008
20:39:57
Play online chess | Better with Black?
Message:
For reasons that are unclear to me, I have consistently had a better record on Gameknot with
black. So I am skeptical about the application of the rule to those of use who are not Class A
players or higher.
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A Match All About the Sicilian — An unusual chess match is being held in South Carolina. It pits Judit Polgar of Hungary, the strongest woman chess payer in history, who is now ranked No. 46 in the world, but once was in the top 10, against Gregory Kaidanov, a Ukrainian-born American grandmaster, who is ranked No. 261. The match is four games and has an interesting twist: Each game begins with a different variation of the Sicilian Defense. The first game was on Monday and was won by Kaidanov, who had White, and featured the Sveshnikov. The second, which was won by Polgar, was on Tuesday and was a Dragon. The third chess game, which is being played on Wednesday, and can ...
Posted by lighttotheright
nsa-hitachi.com
11/16/2008
21:35:48
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I sometimes play for a draw, even when I'm white. I drew a 2300 + player recently doing just that. I was surprised to get an early lead, but I knew it wasn't enough to win. When I got a chance to trade Queens, I took it. I had to give back some material to force a draw, but it worked.
I sometimes lose a game because I push things too far - trying to force a win.
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The f-pawn, part 2: is f5 the answer here? — Does White have a better option than moving the f-pawn? Continuing our look at the chess equivalent of route one football – the f-pawn advance... RB Well, let's see what happens when we push – 1 f5. The answer comes back faster than Manchester United on the break, not much. Black is under no compulsion to take the pawn and can instead centralise with 1…Nd4 or even 1…Qd4, or start getting the queen's rook into play with 1…Rac8, and 1…Nb4, hitting the d-pawn, would be irritating. All right, let's try to be logical. What's wrong here is that even if we could swap off pawns on the f-file, the f1-rook would remain blocked by the bishop. Let's ...
Posted by kansaspatzer
nsa-hitachi.com
11/16/2008
22:34:56
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Message:
An attitude I would generally find more profitable would be "keeping the draw in hand" rather than "outright playing for the draw". Trying to push for a miniscule advantage is easier than pushing outright for a draw, in which you aren't able to claim any positional advantages, which can be tricky since playing for a draw tends to be harder than it sounds.
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Big Surprises in Europe — Europe has been a center of chess activity over the last month with a series of major open tournaments. The first was the Gibtelecom Chess Festival in Gibraltar, which ran from Jan. 26 through Feb. 4. Among the world-class chess players who competed were Etienne Bacrot of France, Sergei Movsesian of Slovakia, Francisco Vallejo Pons of Spain, Michael Adams of England, and Gata Kamsky of the United States. The chess tournament ended in a nine-way tie for first, with Adams winning a four-person playoff to take the title. The Moscow Open, which overlapped with Gibtelecom and ended on Feb. 7, was divided into four sections — A, B, C and D — with ...
Posted by blake78613
nsa-hitachi.com
11/17/2008
04:55:41
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When I am Black, I am happy to repeat a line that lead to a draw, and will keep repeating it until someone finds a way to obtain an advantage. While with White if I draw with a line, I will start looking for a different line.
| Posted by ionadowman
nsa-hitachi.com
11/17/2008
12:29:51
Play online chess | Back in '83 ...
Message:
... I got roped into a six-round Easter tournament, having played just one game (in a telegraph match) in the previous 12 months. Naturally I wasn't in form, having made no preparation. In the event Black won all six of my games!
On reflection, I suppose that wasn't such a good occasion to depart from my usual English Opening to try opening lines I hadn't played before. That wasn't very clever... :(
Cheers,
Ion
| Posted by farhadexists
nsa-hitachi.com
11/18/2008
08:07:12
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Message:
At my level (1500-1600), I don't think it matters, as almost every single game is decided by a blunder of some sort, mine or my opponent's.
Then again, I've won 60% of my games as White here on GK, and 53% as Black, so maybe I have no idea what I'm talking about.
Farhad
| Posted by wulebgr
nsa-hitachi.com
11/19/2008
06:16:37
Play online chess | another
Message:
Black is Okay
The title of a series of books, and allegedly a famous statement by some player--I don't know who.
| Posted by ketchuplover
nsa-hitachi.com
11/19/2008
06:24:03
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Message:
Chess is a theoretical draw-Bobby Fischer
| Posted by andy94
nsa-hitachi.com
11/19/2008
07:28:51
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Message:
Thanks ketchuplover, lack that quote of Bobby!
| Posted by fmgaijin
nsa-hitachi.com
11/19/2008
10:50:48
Play online chess | Andras Adorjan, wulebgr
Message:
EOM
| Posted by markb56
nsa-hitachi.com
12/04/2008
11:14:19
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Message:
I have a terrible time playing as White both on GK and OTB. My win record as Black is about 20% higher both on GK and OTB. I prefer playing with a plan (e.g positional) rather than attack. It also depends on the opponent -- young players seem to have a harder time grinding it out than older players, as they need constant stimulus to stay interested.
| Posted by ionadowman
nsa-hitachi.com
12/04/2008
11:50:06
Play online chess | I guess it depends...
Message:
... on what you find "stimulating" enough to keep your interest. Consider that you are down a pawn in a rook ending; possibly - even probably - a draw, but your opponent has whatever the winning chances going. What keeps you interested enough to play the thing down to its last gasp - lose or draw? It could, of course, be your place in a tournament - the possibility of a "grade prize" (if such things are offered), or, since your opponent has 200 ELO rating points more, there's the "moral victory" of acquiring a significant boost to your own rating and an addition to your chess CV.
Then, there's the intellectual exercise of making the best of the situation, finding whatever tactics there might be in the position, of setting your opponent problems. The same goes if you're on the upside of such an endgame.
Maybe it's worth thinking of it in these terms: When down, you are extracting a draw from a game probably lost; when ahead, you are extracting a win from a game probably drawn! Grinding out the win is not always - I find it's not even usually - lacking in interest.
Cheers,
Ion
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